Discuție:Паӂина принчипалэ

Де ла Википедия ын лимба молдовеняскэ

This domain at wikipedia is a conspiration of desinformation! Because moldavian languages does not exist!

Can You delete this KGB product?

Respect



The information on this page is very stupid. Wikipedia should do something about it.

Yeagh, good point;) Everyone around here thinks wikimedia should delete the domain mo.wikipedia.org:)

I am a citizen of Republic of Moldova. I was born and I have lived in Moldova for 18 years now. Although I had the luck not to witness the repression of the Romanian language back in USSR, I know much about it. I know about the so-called Moldavian language and about other inventions of the USSR. Although 14 years ago a mistake crept into the Constitution of Moldova,I, born in a free country had the opportunity to find out the true history of my ancestors and of my language. I know that my ancestors are Romans, and I know that the language I speak is Romanian. I know that Romanians are my brothers and that we have the same ancestors. That is why I can firmly affirm that this page, claiming the existance the Moldavian language, or writing Romanian in Cyrillic is wrong. Moreover, it is insulting for Moldavians that somebody is trying to besmirch their language in such a way. As a citizen of Moldova, and as an average Moldavian I demand that this page is DELETED immediately!

"in fact we have had Moldovans help us here." - I would very much like to see who are these people. I can bet that they do not speak Romanian very well and that they do not even deserve to be called Moldavians.


(December 7, 2005)


Interesting, where did you find information about this "Moldavian" language?? You look like a solid organisation, and you should know that there is no "Moldavian" language - IT IS ROMANIAN LANGUAGE!!!! witch is spoken in Romania and in the Republic of Moldova!!!! "Moldavian" language is a Soviet invention, a propagandistic instrument, from Stalin's period. But to list "Moldavian" language in the language section of an Encyclopedia Site in 2005 it is a big shame for your organisation, and also you wrote it with russian characters, like in the worst times in the history of the Republic of Moldova, when Romanian language was not only artificially named "Moldavian" language, but also written with russian characters. "GREAT FOR YOU"!!!!! It's like calling English language spoken in USA - American language, imagine what would people think about your site in this situation.... It seems like your specialists have “great knowledge” in language field, I hope in other fields they do a better job.....

Wait, let me guess... you're Romanian, right? We get lots of hate mail from Romanians. Not so much from Moldovans though... in fact we have had Moldovans help us here. --`Node ue 23:57, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
I can't understand what harm can another wiki in cyrilic script make (some kind of cyrilic was used also in your country some centuries ago, wasn't it? ;-)). It is upon the choice of people whether there should be some "România Mare" or not. And if some people want to write and read in cyrilic script, then let them be and write some useful articles for ro: wiki in latin script instead of spoiling others' effort. Destroying something obviously seems to be easier than creating it... If there can coexist bs:, hr:, sr: and sh: wiki, for example, why not ro: and mo:? Miaow Miaow 02:28, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Nobody here (Moldova) writes Romanian in cyrillic, that was enforced by russians long time ago and is no longer valid for over 18 years. It is enforced by the constitution that the official language is based on the latin alphabet. Therefore it is by all means offensive to all who live in Moldova that the official wiki page and the entire interface is written in cyrillic (now imagine English wikipedia with Klingon language). Not even mentioning the zillion of grammar and syntax mistakes!

To Node: A lot of people from Moldova consider themselves to be Romanians, and you are plainly wrong thinking that we have no objections regarding the abuses done on this wiki (i.e. the use of cyrillic)

This is really stupid:..."I can't understand what harm can another wiki in cyrilic script make (some kind of cyrilic was used also in your country some centuries ago, wasn't it? ;-))." Well.. first of all it spoils the image of a country. Being the official site on wiki to represent Moldova, it should respect the nation's official language, and not introduce some kind of unused language, which is moreover offensive for the country's history. The country suffered a lot because of the soviet time, and now someone is trying to reinforce the old times. Well..are we living now or some decades ago?! If now...well we should have the official language here romanian..if some Decades ago...well WE DON"T HAVE THE DAMN COMPUTERS WITH INTERNET IN MOLDOVA so make this page disappear, otherwise there will be no equilibrium in the world...:D Enough...The official language is romanian no matter how our state calls it...it is written with latin characters, and far away from the alphabet used here...and if u want to create something representative for Moldova write everything in romanian (or call it what u want, but using a latin alphabet (btw anyway it remains to be romanian:P) ), but not in some crappy language no one uses.


Node: I had a look at your ro.wiki user page Node_ue and I'm sorry but you don't seem to know romanian as what you wrote there is at best plain funny (and what you called there "Romanian" is nothing but, and your Moldavian not even someone born in Moldova would understand). Basically if I would translate your romanian version, it would sound in english like that:

I GAVE BIRTH AT Arizona. Though romanian is my MOM language, AT Arizona everyone SPEAK English hence my capacity LOWARS. I am 16 YER OL

Incredibly funny that you gave birth and all the funny errors ? Well, that's what your sentence actually says there. And how do you expect not knowing the situation in Moldova and not knowing the language to moderate here ?

Let me tell you some of these are acceptable expressions in Moldova. I just now checked with my parents. They agree with you that "eu am nascut" is wrong (they laughed). But they disagree about "limba mama" (google disagrees too -- even romanians used it), "la Arizona", "fiecare vorbesc", and "scadu". Justification for each, according to them: "la Arizona" is certainly not proper Romanian, but in Moldova, people mix prepositions. "fiecare vorbesc" is again not proper Romanian, but they said in Chisinau people confuse verbs a lot. "scadu" is an example of a word which is not natural in formal speech, but can be used naturally in conversation. Now, I of course didn't know any of this details because I never went to Moldova. I just know what I speak, which is obviously very rough and full of mistakes -- I spoke lots of Romanian/Moldovan until 3 years old, but after that my parents spoke to me mostly in English, and my uncles used a sort of improper street Moldovan of Chisinau when they visited. So I didn't have enough reinforcement of correct speech patterns, and as I noted, "capacitatea mea scadu". I will be the first to admit that I'm very poor at this language, but still, it's my mother tongue. --Node ue 10:29, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Node_ue, this is LAME! Nobody confuses verbs here (and I live here, your parents DO NOT), nobody ever uses "scadu" (nonsense, and I NEVER heard it being used neither written nor as you say in a natural conversation) or "limba mama" (ok, a 5 years old maybe) or "fiecare vorbesc" (again nonsense) or other stuff you wrote, NOBODY, you hear me ?! My parents speak perfect romanian, my grandmothers speak perfect romanian, all my friends speak romanian in the correct way, I'm sorry if your parents don't know romanian but you should not judge the way WE talk by the way YOUR parents talk this is simply wrong. If I were to judge the way english is spoken by looking at some guys who are in states for one month, without previous knowledge of English guess what my opinion would be like. So please stop using your parents as a reference, my parents know russian but they barely use it, and they certainly don't write it! I did not write any russian for a very long time. A lot of people in unversity are having problems trying to read russian books because it is not their native language! Things change, if you want to go to the past, go to the one that Moldova was a part of Romania. Try to understand this: if someone lived here 20-25 years ago when romanian language was repressed (to get a good job you were forced to know russian, romanian was not considered important at all and was disfavoured in every possible way) then they might have been bad at it, but whoever stayed here, was using normal Romanian ever since,and hence their skills improved a lot throughout the years.
Also using google to find erroneous phrases is hillarious and certainly doesn't constitute a proof, you're just showing us that there are people who don't know romanian well enough, just as there are heaps of people who don't know english well enough (search for erroneous english). What you do with this site is you make fun of Moldova, trying to show that people here use cyrillic alphabet which is wrong and if you will say that it is still used, then PLEASE show me a book or any document that is written in cyrillic romanian (not older than 18 years old). Plus to that the amount of mistakes on this site is beyond belief, obivously whoever contributed is simply making fun of it (btw, I checked an old soviet book written in cyrllic romanian, and the pages here don't even follow the soviet conventions of translating romanian to cyrillic)
Hi. There is a Romanian Wikipedia here, which also caters for people from Moldova (and Romania, of course). And it's written, of course, only in the Latin script. It would be great if you could help us out over there! Thanks, Ronline 09:13, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Yep, Ronline, thanks! I know of course about the ro.wikipedia.org, it's great, but why do you reference the cyrillic moldovan as the first language in "other languages" ? We'll try to help you, after all we are the same nation! And it's a pitty that someone whose parents come from Moldova defends Stalinist ways.

Aaaaaaaa...this is really killing me. Node do you realize what u are speaking about?! If ur relatives come from an illiterate family, I am sorry for them. But forgive me, Moldova is not a country of uneducated people. As far as I understood, you've never been to Moldova. Well, I've spent there 19 years of my life, and thanks GOD I have an ideea about what's going on over there. Even the language u hear on the street is not so unproper as the one u use here. But excuse me! A language is not the one you use on the street, imagine english wiki with words like: "Yo mama, zi aaa tu vizit ze ofishial wikipedia riten in american, if iu want tu si normal speling, pliz vizit ze ofishial wikipedia in english" Does it seem ok for you?! why isn't there anything like: us.wikipedia.org? or am.wikipedia.org to be representative for "american". Ogh, is this because such a language: "american" does not exist??:-? Ogh, yeagh and btw..."limba mama"--> does not have the meaning u r using there...and don't judge by the things u find on google...u can even search for "mom Language" [1]and look how many outputs (even more than for the"limba mama" )...oh..that means this is a proper english...hmmm...i really doubt. Ogh, yeagh, come to Moldova and see how many ppl are speaking with unproper prepositions and so on... but they said in Chisinau people confuse verbs a lot. "scadu" is an example of a word which is not natural in formal speech, but can be used naturally in conversation. Is this an insult?! come here and see for urself how the things are going and speak about them after. These kind of mistakes can be made by some russian speakers who never speak romanian...and even they are getting easily used to speaking a normal romanian language. Kid, try to look through Moldova's history, and see why is this so offensive to us.


P.S. oh , yeah, and do you know what "contra plata" means?..it is far far away from "free", moreover, it is the opposite of it! Think twice before you write!


You wrote: "…like in the worst times in the history of the Republic of Moldova, when Romanian language was not only artificially named "Moldavian" language, but also written with russian characters." But do you know cyrilic alphabet used in times by Stephan the Great? I was in "Museum of local lore" in Chisinau (Kishinev) and saw limestone with inscription in Moldavian language with Cyrillic characters. --KIT 10:07, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


Hey guys, what is the deal with "Enciclopedia libera si contra plata"???? "Contra plata" means "for money" right? Since when is Wikipedia a paid service? Also, "vorbeaza" for this section name - I live in Moldova and everyone says "vorbeşte". I am actually appalled by seeing a "moldovan" wikipedia because of the language issues. And since it contains many errors, I suggest taking the site down. I know Romanian (and "Moldovan" for that matter - same language), but I can not understand some of the terms on this site. It would have been much better to make a truly "moldovan" wikipedia, with articles in the language used by "Planeta Moldova". At least it would have been funny. Vitalie / Jan.07, 2006

Poor grammar... and everything else

It is nice to see that "contra plata" has been changed to "fara plata". BUT... it is indeed clear that whoever writes these articels, does not speak Romanian (or Moldovan if you insist) language. "Фарэ" (Fară) is not a preposition (Фэрэ/Fără) is. Ворбязэ/Vorbează is not the correct form of "a vorbi" (vorbeşte is). Verb infinitives must be preceded with "a" (i.e. "a învăţa", "a contibui" etc.). I can understand one typo, but not one in every word. If you don't know the language, don't try to write in it!!! Enough has been said about the poor language in earlier comments, I would suggest appealing to the Wikipedia community/oversight board with a demand to remove this version of wikipedia as being both misleading and offensive. Anyway, who will read it? The official (and de facto) alphabet is Latin, only the unrecognised "republic" of Transnistria uses this decrepit Soviet version, so I imagine the authors of mo.wiki are from there. So what if Romania used cyrillics hundreds of years ago? Does it use it now? NO! Why should you force something misleading on other people? Why do you think you have the right to offend a nation which suffered a cultural wipeout with further humiliation of the only cultural assets it has - its language? So, some of you have been in a museum, huh? I have been in another museum and saw a document signed in 1918 whereby Basarabia decided to join Romania by a unanimous parliamentary vote. This was an independent decision, supported by free will, not by someone's guns. Maybe you should read some books too (and I don't mean written by Soviet or pro-Russian authors).

Let me tell you about myself, I was born in Russia, but my parents were born and grew up in Moldova. I don't know the Romanian language too well, but I know it well enough to see that this site is full of crap. I feel ashamed that I don't know the language of my family and that Russian is my first language, not Romanian, but I am proud to be a Moldovan. I have lived here since 1990, coming just one year after the "Limba Noastră" event, (BTW, look it up, especially photographs or videos if you're lucky), when the people of Moldova demanded the introduction of Latin alphabet. That was the end of Cyrillic alphabet in Moldova. So, seeing such a disgrace within the Wikimedia project (which I absolutely respect), almost makes me cry. It defies the whole idea of independence. I suggest visiting Moldova and staying here for one year with an average Moldovan family. I am sure you will learn a lot and will understand your mistakes.

As part of a more constructive suggestion the best way to do a Cyrillic wikipedia (although I would hate seeing it anyway) would be simply by substituting latin letters with cyrillic ones from the whole Romanian wikipedia. This way the language would be perfect. Don't forget that the so-called Moldovan language is Romanian language, no matter what the constitution says. It is a question of science, not politics.

A note to Russian editors (from Russia): I would not try to make any statements here if I were you, because you most likely don't know how the Moldovan population was opressed during the Soviet times. You had the priviledge of speaking your language freely and learning your culture's past and reading your country's books. People here had to learn YOUR language, YOUR culture, YOUR books, with hardly anything in OUR language.

Peace! --Ervit 11:07, 10 January 2006 (UTC) (btw, the previous post is also mine)

De unde atata rautate?

Limba moldoveneasca este la fel de adevarata, precum este si l.ciocaneana(vorbita in sectorul Ciocana al Chisinaului) si l.ribnitana (vorbita in Ribnita).Eu as vrea sa-l intreb pe smirnov: dumnealui vorbeste rusa sau siberiana? Daca domnia sa are dreptul moral si crestin sa se ocupe cu apartheidul a tot ce este romanesc? Cred adanc ca Dumnezeu nu iubeste minciuna,imoralitatea si va aranja lucrurile la locurile lor.Istoria a mai aratat acest lucru!!!!! Basarabenii si moldovenii-transnistreni sunt la fel de diferiti de romani ,ca moscovitii de locuitorii or.S-Petersburg!!!

Mda... Encicopedia asta e facuta de prosti si... pentru prosti. Unora le pare o gluma reusita. Vasile Stati de pilda e convins ca a facut mare isprava cu "dictionarul" sau, atata timp cat Academia nostra de Stiinte nu l-a dat in judecata pentru plagiat. La fel si tampitii astia, care isi inchipuie ca pot argumenta cumva ineptia Stalinista despre "limba maladavineascy".


Îndurare şi milă de bieţii neuroni...

Aveţi milă de bieţii inocenţi care nu ştiu de unde şi de ce există această dispută interminabilă despre "limba română bifurcată" (alias româno-moldoveneasca). Sau dacă vreţi neapărat să continuaţi opera lui Stalin (pentru că asta faceţi, menţinând această "moldoenciclopedie"), atunci, cel puţin, explicaţi pe undeva: "este un proiect stalinist, care ne place la nebunie (nouă, autorilor), care tare mai vrem să fim luaţi în serios, taman aşă cum este luat în serios Vasîli Stati, Vova Stipaniuk şi Kiokea Jenia Ostapciuk ( şei cu "pirojioaşili")!




Aaaa.... hmmm... translate this:----

го ту хел стюпид американз! сэ вэ гэсяскэ бен ладен пи тэц!

ya know, before this wiki was my favourite encyclopedia on the web...

one more fact... this "language" you've made the site in is (or was) used by very old people living in villages who don't even know of the existance of computers. i wonder why are we still celebrating the "limba noastra cea romana" day for more than 15 years...

so then, why not make a site in english, but with cyrilic characters... hey, yeah!! good ideea...

ват ду ю сэй? ха? вуд ю лайк ит? think about it!

P.S. i'm a person from MOLDOVA and not from Romania... believe me...



Păi cum aşa? Un copil prăpădit de 16 ani din SUA ne învaţă ce-i aia limbă română şi limbă moldovenească? 16 ani?


============================================================

What does "Bîrcîeşte - Быркыеште" mean? I am a well-educated Moldovan, who has lived for 22 years in Chisinau, with relatives in the country side. I was born in the USSR, learned first to read with cyrillic characters. I have read actually lots of book written in Romanian with cyrillic characters, and I have never heard of such a word. I've never met it. And if you look in a dictionary edited during the Soviet Union, you wouldn't find it either! Moldovans do not use this word. Never. Neither they use, "Halaturi - Халатурь" ALso, for a Moldovan who received his primary education by using cyrillic characters, it's strange to see so many mistakes.

My conclusion is: 1. The persons contributing at mo.wikipedia.org are not native Moldovans. Or they are just making fun of Moldovans, the language they speak, and the alphabet that they used. I must remind you that even though in the middle ages official documents where written with cyrillic characters(due to the influence of the Orthodox church), there weren't such words as Быркыеште or Халатурь. These are words that must have been invented, or used in very limited areas(like a village or two).

2. This site should be taken down because it is not offering an objective view over the use of the cyrillic script in the Romanian(Moldovan) language. It just proves why open-source is not always trusted - because Wikipedia allows things like this. Question: If i had a site called lo.wikipedia.org, dedicated to my girlfriend - Love of my life, would that be ethic? would I be allowed to do that? Than why do you allow pseudo-scientific, biased, not representative and unobjective content on wikipedia?

Please take it out!

Victor. Chisinau, Republic of Moldova

==================================================================
If it was written in the language of your girlfriend, yes, it would be ethic. The content here may not be *spelt correctly*, and a few words may be incorrect, but about 70% of the workforce is not Moldovan -- thus, some articles will be spelt correctly because Moldovans checked them, and others are not because Moldovans didn't checked them. Can content be unbiased, scientific, representative, and objective whilst being spelt incorrectly? Certainly.
The point of Wikipedia is that anybody may edit its pages. If you find an error, or indeed, if you find that a page is full of hundreds of errors, the beauty of this system is that you are encouraged to fix it. This is why this Wikipedia slowly improves -- people create pages, other people add facts, other people fix mistakes, and eventually the result is a good, well-polished article, for example the one about the ex-Pope of the Catholic church, John Paul. So you are invited to fix errors whereëver you see them. That is all types of errors -- factual errors (like, if it said, "Moldova -- tara situata asia", you can fix it to say "Moldova -- tara situat in europa"), spelling errors (like, if it said, ачеястэ, you can fix it to say ачастэ), grammatical errors... also, you can add facts, or write new articles. The entire point of Wikipedia is that everybody may modify articles. So if a word is spelled wrong, please, please, please fix it! If a word doesn't exist, fix it, or if you don't know how, tell somebody so they can replace it!
If I believed that this site would always be badly spelled and that there was no hope for improvement, I would give up on it entirely. But I don't give up because progress is being made -- very slowly, but it is being made. For example, I searched for all occurances of "ачястэ", which was used on a lot of pages, and is spelled wrong, and replaced them with "ачастэ". Or replacing "oficiial" with "oficial", or "materiial" with "material"... these sorts of errors are, as you can see, very common here. But as I said we make progress here, even if it's slow. --Node ue 10:49, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Nodule tu nu vorbesti limba romana. Nu ai nici o credibilitate. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 16:31, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Whatever.

A Joke

This site is a joke and nothing more at best. In the worst case it is an insult to Moldovans and Romanians because of its mistakes and the fact that it is written in Cyrillic; last time I checked Latin was official in Moldova. Sooner or later Node ue, it will be deleted. Don't even bother to answer me with your pathetic responses like "people are still using Cyrillic in Moldova". Fact is, the language called Moldovan is written in Latin. Констэнцияну 20:17, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

What is official and what is in use are not congruent. Cyrillic was official in Chisinau for more than 50 years, would you have agreed to its use in a Wikipedia then? No, you and your Romanian friends would've shouted something about stalinists and the URSS. Well, it's not official in Chisinau anymore. So what? It doesn't matter! This is Wikipedia, not Let's-Do-What-The-Political-Leaders-In-Chisinau-Say-pedia. Alemannisch is not the official language anywhere, but it still has a Wikipedia. Moldovan-in-Cyrillic is not official anywhere (unless you count PMR, which you and your buddies do not, although many Armenians do, and let me remind you Armenia is a real country recognised by the U.N.), but does that mean it can't be used in Wikipedia? No. You are the person doing the insulting -- a Romanian tries to comandeer things.


This whole site is rotten


Hey, Node ue, a question to you: how come I don't find us.wikipedia.org, or nz.wikipedia.org? Guys, please don't pretend as if you don't understand what people are talking about here.

Now, in reply to the previous unsigned post: more than 50 years??!! Ha!!! 51 is more than 50, that's true, of these 51 years World War II took away 6 years, so that leaves 45. Now take away 8 more years when Stalin was sending people from Moldova to Siberia just because they were Moldovans, also don't forget the hunger in 1946 when people starved to death here.

And now to the point of usefulness of Cyrillic wikipedia. As someone above mentioned quite well, Cyrillics are used only by old village dwellers who will never see even a calculator, let alone a computer and internet. So instead of creating useful content, you are creating useless content, because people speaking Romanian, even if they know Russian and can read cyrillics, will never read your articles here. It is a waste of time and an insult to Moldovans. You are IN DENIAL!!! Accept the truth, read some Moldovan newspapers, read some books, watch Moldovan TV, listen to Moldovan radio (and I don't mean Russkoe Radio or Chanson).

Oh yeah, almost forgot: do you know what happened in schools when Moldova became Russian after WW2? Children were told by teachers "Ie melu' si scrie pe doscaua", also a word "uchebnik" and many others were introduced along with Russian alphabet. It was a brainwashing regime and you are its consequence. You are either one of the two possibilities: 1. You are a Russian trying to prove to the world Moldova is still a Russian Gubernia; or 2. You are a Moldovan who has been enslaved by the Russian regime and still believes Moldovan is merely a Russian who lives in Moldova. I personally believe you belong to the group No. 1. No one can be that grateful to enslavers.

Since all arguments don't get through to the people "working" on this wikipedia, I suggest we do create a wikipedia in English but written in Russian words :) Вот ду ю сэй? Даз ит саунд лайк э грэйт айдия? Лет'с ду ит, гайз!! (Transliteration: What do you say? Does it sound like a great idea? Let's do it guys!!) --Ervit 14:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Don't bother Ervit. The people working on this wikipedia is in fact just one: a 16 year old kid who thinks he knows all about Moldova. In fact he has never picked up a Moldovan newspaper like you have suggested. He also seems to live in a fantasy world from what I can gather in his response above to my message: he says America has recognized Transnistria. I am pretty sure it is not the United States of America. Ha Ha Ha! Констэнцияну 01:19, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Is it settled?

Some changes have happened since I did not logged in here. It is settled ? Mo.wiki would become a cyrillic alphabet based wikipedia? A Slavic one ? Even thou Node's translations were funny, it did not match these Cyrillic ones. This is what happens when too much time is available. From what i know this wikipedia should be frozen. It seems that our russian friends understand different the meaning of the freezing conditions. In my opinion this means that no contribution should be made until a decision it was taken. But for them it meant, from what I see, to blow the Russian cold upon these wikipedia pages and freeze it, russian style. Do not try to find a war where there is none. Pity. Elerium 14:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC).